Bishop Leonard Umunna is the overseer and founder of the Bible Life Church with the headquarters in Lagos, Nigeria. In this exclusive interview with ZEBULON AGOMUO, Editor, he spoke on some developments in Christendom, particularly controversial prophesies by some members of the clergy and the pull towards politicising the church through utterances and close affinity with politicians and government at all levels. He also spoke on state-of-the-nation. Excerpts:
Some utterances and prophecies from clerics are becoming confusing. A lot of the prophecies so called are tending towards political; what is actually happening?
God is not an author of confusion, as it was in the days of Jeremiah, so it is now. Many of them are commercial, government and ‘belle-belle’ prophets. This is the Nigerian version of what happened in America last year during their presidential election. Many of them wanted to be recognised by their government and some of them go to them for ‘prayer money’, ‘candle money’ ‘position money’ even ‘contract money’. But in Jeremiah’s days God said I did not send them. If they had stood on the word of God they would have improved the lots of the people; they would have brought them succour, and make God fulfil what they say. One of the women that was accosted after the deluge of prophecies on Donald Trump coming back to office lamented that it was just others trying to say it and she followed and that’s how it has been. In Nigeria, once people hear that something is happening, they just want to belong without finding out if it is the right thing to do. But a Jeremiah that knew his calling and the purpose of his calling would not do such things. The reality is that whatever is happening now has been spoken by God. I had spoken about these things long ago. In one of my interviews with the media in 2016, I specifically pointed it out that these things would be happening increasingly. Those people that are prophesying contrary to the word of God, they would be expecting their prophecies to come to pass; they will never come to pass. 2019, I specifically pointed out that until the last person according to God’s own calendar is killed, the case of Nigeria will still continue like that. The reasons are not far-fetched. They include, years of bad governance, constitution matter or sometimes I say name matter (the name of Nigeria). But in summary, the problem is due to insincerity of government; body language of government; foot-dragging of government and manifest lacking of political will by government to do the right thing. Now, Nigeria is over-divided; these prophets have come to deepen the division for their selfish interest.
Do you think the Church, the entire Christendom in Nigeria is really living up to expectation in the times we are in? Again, what impact do you think the things happening in society nowadays are having on the church?
The impact they are having on the church is the lowering of standard. The role the church is supposed to play, it is playing it half way. That is the social responsibility side; providing what it was not totally expected to provide. Look at the Covid-19, people running into the church requesting this and that from the church plus the lackdown and recession that followed; all these things are on us. These things are coming at the same time, with little or nothing coming into the church because the tithe, the offering, the seeds they are supposed to get, the bad economy has caused them to be whittled down or non-existent in many cases. Now, what is the cause of this? The nucleus of the matter is this- it has made many prophets to be prophesying according to trends in the country today. They are trying to be relevant whereas they don’t have what it takes. Nigeria is seen today as a struggling nation according to Britain; another personality in Nigeria says, Nigeria is bleeding, and some of us are saying that Nigeria is gasping for breath. Who is saying live and not die? It is only the church. The church as far as humanitarian effort is concerned, we are trying. Where we are not measuring up is the spiritual aspect which is their primary calling; their primary responsibility. These have made it that honesty is now a high commodity in Nigeria and without people being honest as the Bible says, sin is a cankerworm; wherever corruption is, the people have grieved God and the consequences are what we are reaping. All I am saying is, Nigeria is not what is should be, and it has affected the church.
Many people believe that the Federal Government’s approach at tackling the insecurity is not transparent enough; what is your take here?
Honestly, every one close to the fire is already feeling the heat as far as Nigeria’s security matter is concerned because, that ought to be the primary responsibility of government. That’s what they swore an oath to do- security of lives and property of the citizens. The whole world is crying. There is nowhere what has happened in Somalia wants to repeat that there would not be an alarm. But it seems that most of our leaders are like people who are sleeping or pursuing rats while their houses are burning. Government is not showing concern; I don’t want to use the world, insensitivity; government is foot-dragging and worst of it when some officers come to speak for the presidency or the administration, the words they use are not the kind of words people expect to hear from their government.
They really begin to wonder if it is Nigeria or another country that they are into now. I warned about this in 2016 that it may come to a point if nothing is done, if someone ask, are you from Nigeria, you ask the person, what part of Nigeria? This is because from street to street, there is conflict. Investment is now going to be a bigger problem in Nigeria. Look at just the other day, some social media companies that were supposed to come and patronise Nigeria, they said they were going elsewhere. Of course, they have the right to go elsewhere.
But look at manufacturing industries we had in the past, too many to count, they are gone. What made it so? Poor investment climate. We are talking about lack of electricity. Today, a primary school pupil knows that all is not well with the country. There are too many wars going on in the country. We have something worse than the Nigeria-Biafra war, but today, no part of the country is safe. I think the real cause of all these is the neglect of what government should do. I have been saying that Nigeria, like an aeroplane successfully took off but immediately crash-landed; it has not moved again; in fact, the engineers are yet to get the necessary parts to lift it up again. You are asking what all of these may amount to, it is break up; it is staring us in the face; that is what these things may amount to; but I don’t pray for that. Some nations that have broken up, their own didn’t get to the level we are in Nigeria now.
Call it indifference; call it some alignment to cause trouble; the press is being gagged today. I learnt that some are having fines being imposed on them for allowing people say certain things and even they themselves asking question to make the people say the right thing. They can’t tell whether the military is better now or political administration. What I want to say is, transparency is lacking. Nobody can tell whether government is sincere or not. It has been like that- from PDP to APC, but the thing is worsening as the days go by. Integrity is lacking. All I would want to say is, government should look inwards; President Jonathan said he had Boko Haram members in his cabinet, now some people have been pointed at in this government; may be, government should look more inwards, so that the transparency matter can be settled for once. May be, government should take a stronger look at the abductions and kidnappings; again, maybe it should look again at that military bombing that took place in the North that took away the lives of our own precious soldiers. May be, the government should overhaul its war machinery or architecture, and make the people know we are really at war before it is too late.
Currently, government is seeking the assistance of other countries to fight terrorism; what is your thought on this?
Yes and no, but let me start with the no. There are some precipitating or underlining factors as they talk of Covid-19; they would say the person died of Covid-19 complications. If ten trees fell on a property (on top of one another), you have to first remove the one on top before trying to pull at the one underneath. We have had this constitutional problem; I have on many occasions spoken about the name, Nigeria; it is fighting, shedding blood to progress; the spiritual connotation is not in our favour, but leave that aside for now. Make constitution in line with whatever we are passing through; use those things as the main things to solve the problem; if you like make effective constitutional changes, but the right thing would have been, drop this one, let the people say, ‘we the people of Nigeria…’ That way, it becomes the people’s constitution.
There are other fundamental errors that if you don’t take care of them, bring machinery from outside which I said I would answer later, there will still be problem because of internal corruption. Abacha was quoted to have said that if the kind of things happening in Nigeria now persist within a particular time he gave; they should look towards government side as having a hand in it. I think somebody was also once quoted as saying that if you do so, so, so on Nigerian matter, some people would go home in body bags.
These things are telling you that there is an internal trouble that if it is not settled, whatever an external person is coming to settle will not last or may not work at all. Mercenaries can do it; they did it for us doing the president Jonathan administration, nobody can say we have not done it; we have done it before. Some countries have invited others and they have done it; I think somebody was asking America to move a certain headquarters to another place to solve the matter; it will not solve it because, if there is no peace within a family and they want to broker peace by enforcing it, commanding them to obey an external person, when you talk and go, they will continue what they were doing- internal squabbles.
Now, the main thing- Chinua Achebe, our own celebrated writer, said it that the chief problem of Nigeria is leadership. And that’s why I said when they are reframing the constitution, somebody who has so, so, records should not vie for so, so, so position. Somebody who is having so and so ailment should not vie for so, so and so position; somebody having so, so and so track record should be considered, but if he associates with so, so and so person or persons, he should not be considered. We must take all the challenges we are having now in reframing the constitution. Leadership is our problem, once we solve it, we have solved most of Nigeria’s problems and Nigeria can thrive and be what it is supposed to be in the comity of nations.
If you were to give a judgment on Isa Pantami’s case in relation to his ministerial position and his relationship with terrorists, what would that be?
Isa, that is another name for Saviour, Christ; he should save his name and his people. Pantami is in charge of the data base of Nigerians; all our particulars are with him; if I were his employer, I would move him to a less sensitive position, if he must be there; take him away from anything communication. If he does not want to resign, as Kemi Adeosun resigned, government should do the needful so that tomorrow others would not be citing him as an example, thereby worsening the case of Nigeria. Those who persuaded Adeosun to resign should also persuade Pantami to resign or take him to court, let him face the music for the good of all.
There have been reported cases of escalation of insecurity in the South East; what in your opinion is the cause of this?
Thank God you used the word escalation, it has been there. Nanamdi Kanu can tell; the law court of Nigeria can tell, but now escalated, primarily because of the perceived injustice not being addressed at all or properly. When evil is not dealt with, people delight in taking up arms and taking laws into their hands. I do not support any side in this matter, but perceived marginalisation is everywhere in Nigeria now, but that of the South East is giving many people concern. That was why when the former Inspector General of Police was leaving, some people pleaded that they should give that position to South East; there are people from that zone qualified to take that position.
That action would have placated the South Easterners. But now they refused, it has worsened the situation of things or provoked more aggression. Next is the politics side of it. One, two, three, four people contested for governorship, they said the first one was not in it again, that means he has lost; the contest should now be among three people- two, three and four; whatever happened they put number four as governor, it calls for…a hard look at the matter. Those who felt shortchanged would be feeling it. I heard somebody quoting somebody that even the governor said they don’t like him in his state. He will not feel safe, because some people may feel they have robbed others to favour him. Just like I said in Pantami’s case that he should save his name because of tomorrow, because he who fights and runs away can come back and fight against tomorrow. A good name is better than riches, more to be desired than any other thing on earth. Perhaps, the last not the least is this Ebube-agu that has been positioned now. Amotekun is there; Arewa have their own, but Ebube-agu is giving some challenges because the East is already divided because of that political matter and this government’s appointment of officers, especially at top security level. The solution is to redress it, and to redress it so clearly that everybody would see and say that truth has prevailed or that justice is not only done but seen to have been rendered.
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