Excerpts.
The Anti Open Grazing law that has created a lot of tension in the
state is a creation of legislation and you are aspiring to go to the
senate. What will be your plan in strengthening this law or selling it
to the national assembly so that it can have a national touch?
When we came in-in 2015, as chairman Rules and Business, I was in receipt of four bills that had to do with anti-open grazing law and I went through the constitution and land use act because as chairman
house standing committee on Rules and Business, I also double as Legal Adviser of the house.I advised the house that we cannot sit here in Abuja and make a law that will guide the operations of land across Nigeria because the land use act gives custody of land in the respective states to the respective governors of those states so you cannot sit here and make a law on land taking away the custody of the land from the governors.
It is only the governors that can do that in their respective states
so what state A desires may not be what state B desires. So, based on my advice, I sat with the speaker and told him that and being a lawyer himself, he saw the point and we withdrew the bill and kept it in the cooler and that was when some states started to take up the challenge; the governor of Ekiti, the governor of Benue and that of Taraba state, they took up the challenge and came up with those laws in
collaboration of course with their state assemblies.So, there is very little that we can do, we can only tackle the fall
outs of any crisis that will arise from the operations of such laws
and that we have been doing. Any time crisis erupted in Benue state, since the Police and other security agencies are paid from the federation, they are federal servants and naturally we come in and call them to question and so we are not relenting.Personally I have at the last count sponsored up to seven motions on the security situation largely in Benue state and also elsewhere to ensure that the operations of these laws do not empery with human lives and property. And you are all living witnesses to the actions and activities of some of the security agencies.
Unfortunately, in this federation we don’t have state police so it is
left to the federal security agencies or agents to tackle issues of security when they come up and as legislators there is no much we can do. Based on the repeated motions that have been coming up on the floor of the house, sometimes, I believe in 2015 there was a security
summit that was held which involved all heads of security agencies, all of them including the paramilitary ones and we held an in-house meeting with them and we asked them to tell us exactly what were the problems, is it something that the national assembly can step in and
help? this meeting spanned for four hours and at the end of it, they said they will improve and yet from the point of view of those of us on the other side, we saw no improvement especially from somebody like me who comes from Benue, we didn’t see much improvement.I don’t know much that can be done from the point of view of federal law makers when you are talking about anti-open grazing law other than
to ensure that the security agencies are not bias in the way they operate because if you want to grasp somebody and take him to court, we have no local security people that can prosecute the person to
court, it just has to be done by the regular police that you have
around there and so those are our limitations but we will not rest
because “as far as there is insecurity, the national assembly is supposed to be bothered and we have sufficiently indicated that we are bothered because there is no act of serious security breach that has happened in Benue or anywhere across that has not been brought to the
floor of the house.” At the last count before I left the beat of Rules and Business as chairman, I had counted 79 motions on security matters alone and that’s a high number if you count the total number of motions we had at that time, that’s a high number.No other topic has attracted many motions as the issue of insecurity in the House of Representatives to which I belong so when I do cross over to the senate, I don’t think it will be any different, I can speak for myself, I can only answer my father’s name but in all fairness to the national assembly particularly the house of reps, we have not rested on our oars.
“If the executive arm had responded to issues the way we presented them, I am sure we wouldn’t have been where we are today”. Sometimes you have the impression that these people are looking at you as interlopers because our democracy has not develop to a stage where people will respect institutions.
Sometimes they will take it as an affront. You are all living
witnesses to the fact that the then Inspector General of the
federation was summoned by the senate but he refused to appear so these are some of the problems that the national assembly and our country have in the process of trying to implement the democracy that
we have. Maybe much much later, people will respect institutions and no longer look at the egos that will stand in the way of the
development of our country. I think that is much that I can say.
River Buruku crossing point has been on everybody’s nerve, as a member of the national assembly, can you tell us the efforts you have made to the actualization of the bridge and to what extent can you say your efforts have achieved positive result? is there any hope in the nearest future?
The Buruku bridge, as soon as I got into the national assembly in
2007, I think the following year I brought a motion on the Buruku
bridge and it was taken. The following year in 2009, it was captured in the national budget and N300 million was allocated for the designing alone.Then the cost of the bridge was put at N4 billion. Expectedly, I
thought that since the design had taken place, contract for the
construction of that bridge will be awarded the following year but
unfortunately, we didn’t see it to the bridge. “I tried to go from
office to office but I was too junior then as a legislator to cause any ripples or waves and so I needed my time”. I think in 2012 again I brought another motion to remind the house again that the bridge is
still lying in the cooler, the design is still lying somewhere in the
cooler so the house took the motion and the resolution was passed that something should be done about it.Something was done about it again because it reappeared but as a design and it was then that I discovered that, that design had not been completed because according to them the money had not been released, only part of the money was released.
As we speak today, to the best of knowledge that design has been
completed. By the time I brought the second motion, the cost of that bridge was put at N12 billion. Now, in 2013 when the boat mishap happened on the boxing day in Buruku at Buruku crossing point, I brought the motion again and reminded that if we have a bridge across this river, we will save scores of lives, the motion was taken and the same resolution was adopted that the executive arm of government has no excuse because the cost is going up.Today the cost has risen I think to N20 billion I believe. When last
year the mishap happened where we lost about 17 lives, I brought the motion again and this time the house set up a high powered delegation led by the Deputy chief whip of the house to come for an on-the-sport assessment and go and advise so that if possible the speaker himself along with some of the key officers will put pressure on the president
to ensure that, that bridge is build, that is the state we are. We now
have a budget but unfortunately it was just last week after the visit
of that delegation that the budget was presented.I looked through but it is not in this year’s budget but what I am
doing is to continue to pressure the leadership of the house since the resolution of the house says the speaker along with other principal officers should take the matter up with the executive arm of government because believe me or not, what happens is that you will pass a beautiful motion, a resolution and that will be the end of the matter but if you are lucky, it will be implemented just like the NYSC matter at the Benue state University Makurdi otherwise you have to
follow up and go to some offices and even begging before you get it implemented that is how the system works.Related News So as we speak, the matter is still on my mind and the water has not died out. We will continue as long as I have the platform, I will
continue to agitate that this matter of the bridge does not die a natural death.
You are gunning for the senatorial seat of zone ‘B’ (Benue north-west) and we all know that zone ‘B’ is one of the disadvantaged senatorial district in terms of infrastructural development. Tell us how you
intend to attract development projects which the person you want to wrestle power from has not been able to do?
Well I think I have answered that question but for emphasis, I will
repeat again. Infrastructure just like the question that I have just
answered is just a matter of how you can meander your way in the
system. Other than that you can only operate within the amount that has been allocated to you as constituency project which is not much in any case.In the cases of Lagos and Kano who have 24 members, both of them have 24 members each. At the end of the day you discover that sometimes a
member will have N20 million or 20 something million but not up to N40 million as constituency projects and you know that does not amount to anything.For those of us who come from Benue, it’s better but is still less
than a hundred million so it will depend on how you have understood how to work within the system that you can bring projects to your constituency that will be far more than what is allocated to you as your constituency projects.
So, you cannot sit here and brag that when you get there because there are a lot of variables.If you go there and fall on the wrong side of the politics of the
national assembly, you are on your own. For instance, during the
struggle for speakership, you back the wrong candidate, at the end of the day you are seen as a looser, you are entitled to only what every other person is getting, you are seen as an enemy of the leadership
and so no matter how well intended you are, you will have your limitations but if you are lucky and you fall on the right side of the leadership and you know how to meander your way, you can bring in a lot back home. So, that is why I am always careful to sit here and brag about doing this or doing that, you have to be very very careful.The important thing is, if you have a desire to serve your people and you go there looking for opportunities, I am sure you will come back with something. That desire and willingness to meander your way around
the system is critically important in surviving at the national
assembly.I have always promised my people that if I know your problem(s) and I go there, what belongs to you nobody will take it away and for one I won’t divert it. I know that there have been cases of abuses of the constituency projects. Of course I can’t stand here in all good
conscience and say that there are no abuses because some people will go and collaborate or collude with some contractors and make it look like the projects have been done when indeed they have not been done and then they will share the funds, those cases are there.But those of us who go there, if I were doing that, I wouldn’t have
come back, I wouldn’t have being a member of the house by now because I am the first person in Buruku to have repeated an election. Even as a councilor, nobody has repeated a councilor until I came on the scene
and I believe it is because I felt nobody should cheat the people of what belongs to them and so if I benefited from there, I am not about to depart from that path. I assure the people of zone ‘B’ that that will continue when I get to the senate.
It could be recalled that sometime in the past, an upcoming politician like you, Terngu Tsegba suffered a dastard defeat in the hands of Senator Georg Akume. Now you are vying for the position, how prepared are you?
When Tsegba lost, Tsegba is my friend and to the glory of God Tsegba is the only person from the Tiv axis to have won elections thrice, yeah thrice. He won back to back from 1999 to 2007 and so he should be proud of that achievement. Nobody says if you go into an election you must win by all means, both to lose.
But somebody who goes in and loose is better than somebody who is afraid to go in, I am sure I am correct. It’s better to start a race and loose than to be afraid of starting a race because at least you will have an experience. But it is a big mistake to compare my situation with Tsegba. If I had gone into this election against the
senator in 2011, I would have lost, I am sure of that. He was at the
peak of his political glory, he had a lot of political sympathy. Even
in 2015, if I had dared that, I still would have gotten the short end
of the stick because he still had the stock of sympathy that was high based on the situation on the ground.My opinion is that he has abused it, he has started to play God and
you don’t share God’s glory with Him. Nobody would have thought a while back that I will depart from him (Sen. Akume) because I pride myself as having tones of tones of patience but it got to a point that I couldn’t fathom a situation where somebody will perpetually be playing God. I can take it but my people wouldn’t take it and they have told me that they can’t continue with him and being the source of my power, I have to depart from there.
We are presenting ourselves to the people, is not about how big
somebody is. If democracy is about what the people want, I am solidly on ground as far as I know because it is the people that will vote; we want you or we want this person. I have gone round and I did my consultations before I came out and like I said, believe me or not, I am on solid ground that is why instead of going out there to tell the people what they want to do, they are bragging that there will be federal might. I don’t know about federal might, if it were federal might I would have lost election in 2011 because I left the PDP which was then the ruling party both at the state and at the federal and I still got my election as an opposition person, same in 2015. So, I can’t see that now somebody will begin to brag about federal might when the president himself defeated an incumbent president and
there was no federal might. If I heard that my opponent was there trying to convince the people to his style of politics and I know that they are persuaded, I will be concerned but that’s not what I am hearing, what I am hearing is that, rather they are bragging about bringing in federal might so let’s see how the people of Benue will stand and see their will being thwarted because somebody is talking
about federal might, I am not bothered at all. I am in for good but it’s not between me and him, we are only presenting ourselves to the people and at the end of the day the people will decide.
If in all good conscience the voting is free and fair and they prefer him, I will be the first to call and congratulate him because that’s how democracy is played, is not about do-or-die and I am not in the race because of do-or-die, I am in because I believe the people want a change and I am presenting myself but at the end of the day the people will determine who will be their representative.
As a federal legislator, you make laws not just for the good
governance of your own state, your interest is the entire nation. Why has it been difficult for members of the national assembly to call President to order when they have the constitutional right to do so?
That is the difference about our democracy. Elsewhere people respect institutions so once an institution like the national assembly, the legislature comes up with a resolution you have no choice but to respect it but I am telling you that not up to 50% is respected by the executive arm of government, not up to 50 and so what do you do? do
you commit suicide? because you are tied by what the constitution says you can do and you cannot go outside what the constitution says you can do and once you do that, even though members of the public will believe that you should have done more and if you ask what exactly should I do, even to the enlightened ones, what exactly do you think having come this far, what should the national assembly have done and
they will be stocked just like you are stock because that is what the constitution says you should do so nobody is happy.
And then when it gets to the national assembly itself, you have
interests, you have members of the president’s party some of who are with him will face him blind folded going to any battle even when they know is wrong, they will still follow him.There are some members of his party who will not be happy with it but because they want to survive, they will keep quiet and then you have opposition who will be shouting up and down but maybe they don’t have the nerves to go for the joggers, they will leave it at that.
But be reminded that even in established democracies like America, if you are following what is going on in America over the shutdown ofgovernment, over the border wall, a lot of Republicans who are of the president’s party are not even happy, many of them are not happy but they don’t want to stake out their necks for their political survival.I was asking myself that, so I thought it is only in our clime here
that such things happen. Those who refused to be endorsed by Ttrump in the midterm elections that took place, ironically most of them lost and Trump was jubilating that look you refused to follow me and you have lost, you have lost because you refused to follow me.
So, the politician unfortunately would like first and foremost to
survive before he can contribute whatsoever he can contribute so we have to live with that reality that, that is the reality of a
politician anywhere in the world unfortunately so.
Journalists, when you become politicians you do the same. We have one editor, I have forgotten his name, this one with white hair all over. He was the spokesman of the house in the last assembly. I use to enjoy his writings, he will attack the polity, criticize everything but when
he was made spokesman of the house, he defended everything that came out of the house including some things that were indefensible, he was still defending them. The system will heat you up when you get there no matter how it is so that is it. Thank you.
