One of the contenders for the president-general seat of Ohanaeze Ndigbo, Uche Okwukwu, in an explosive interview in Port Harcourt revealed how South East lost a 6th state offered them on a platter of gold by then President Mohammadu Buhari due to pettiness. He told IGNATIUS CHUKWU how money tears Ohanaeze to pieces and highlighted what Igbos must do to move ahead. He also spoke on many issues concerning the Igbo nation. Excerpts:
Can you please introduce yourself the way you want to be recognised?
My name is Dim Uche Nnam Okwukwu from Elele in Ikwerre Local Government Area of Imo State.
Do you still consider yourself the authentic President-General of Ohanaeze Ndigbo in view of emergence of other persons, especially the person that emerged in Enugu?
Five to six days before the election, Jackson Nwomenazu, a chief, had earlier announced himself president-general in an election that was conducted by an electoral committee headed by Richard Ozubor. On the 9th of January, 2025, the tenure of the last executive statutorily ended at midnight, and election must be conducted immediately into the new day. This was done in Port Harcourt by an electoral committee under the headship of Achi Achi where I was returned as president-general with Ogbaah Ekeh Ogbaah from Abia State as deputy president-general; Obi Manafa from Anambra State was returned as secretary-general in line with our constitution.
Now, the question is, was the election valid because some persons had claimed that another election was held in the Government House in Enugu? Now, which of these three elections is authentic? That’s the question both in law and logic?
I want to speak on what I know about. I have made it very clear that I am not clairvoyant nor a mystic. That is to say that I do not know what happened in Enugu because I was not there. So, I will limit myself to what I know. Now, my attention was drawn to an alleged election in Enugu and that it was a voice vote. I do not know, but to the best of my knowledge, my boss, my benefactor (John Azuta-Mbata), is not a member of Ohanaeze Ndigbo and you cannot contest election in an organisation you do not belong to. I challenge Mbata to show, either written or verbal evidence, where he has ever participated in any activity of the Ohanaeze Ndigbo; either attendance at the General Assembly, at local council, state or national level, or where he has participated as a member of the Ime-Obi (inner caucus). No evidence. Further assuming, why was an election held in Government House? If in 2027 Asiwaju (President Bola Ahmed Tinubu) holds election in Aso Rock, hope nobody will blame him. Igbos or Peter Obi should not blame Asiwaju if he decides that collation of election should be done in Aso Rock. In line with the tradition of Ohanaeze, the convention which is what takes over where a constitution failed to cover any matter, you must do accreditation of voters, show the number of delegates that came to vote, then it is left to the contestants to show evidence that all stepped down for one man. You must hold the election where the voters would not have any threat. Can Government House fit into such a place?
In the video clip we saw, we did not see any ballot box, nor voters lining up. I have also been challenged on why the election held in Port Harcourt. I have replied that by convention, any state asked to produce the next president-general will host it. It was so in Enugu in 2017, Imo in 2021, and now Rivers State in 2025. Deaths made Imo to produce three presidents. Some persons have asked me why we did not show the video tape of our election. I have answered them clearly that the delegates asked us not to play the video for fear of insecurity. Delegates came to the election and voted. They said they were scared because back home, there is problem in Igboland. Nobody knows who are the unknown gunmen. We have asked this question many times; is it the government killing people or people are killing themselves? We have seen Boko Haram leadership from time to time though in cover, but at least, government can engage Boko Haram. Sometimes, Government has engaged them to release kidnap victims. We know the PLO, Hamas, but Israel talks with Hamas. But in the case of the five states in the South East, nobody has seen the leader of unknown gunmen. All we have seen are killings; from Anambra to Imo and some parts of Enugu and Ebonyi. Technically speaking, the only state that is free is Abia. But nobody has answered this question of who are the unknown gunmen. Next, the governors set up what they call Ebube Agu. IPOB constituted what they call ESN (eastern security network); my position is that both Ebube Agu and ESN should be disbanded. I have said this before. The reason is that if you constitute a security outfit to secure lives and property and I set up a security outfit to protect lives and property, then our intentions are same. If it turns out that the outcome is no longer protection, rather destruction of same lives you claimed to protect, then we must agree to disband all, except there is another reason not known to the public. We then hand our security to the civil police so we can hold them responsible. Today, we cannot hold any security agency responsible in Igboland because we have constituted non-state actors and armed them. So, the security in Igboland is fluid, it’s not accountable. The government is saying, you constituted non-state actors and armed them and giving them power to protect lives and property. Our own operatives including police and army are being killed. They ask, how can we protect you when we cannot protect ourselves? They say police stations are being burnt, policemen and soldiers are being slaughtered, so you cannot hold us responsible as principal state actors for not protecting you because we are in a helpless situation. This is why every delegate that came to the election in Port Harcourt said they wanted to vote and go home to be alive since we do not know what is happening where we come from. That is where we find ourselves.
We take it that John Mbata is not a registered member of Ohanaeze Ndigbo?
You as journalists can reach him and ask him to show you evidence that he is a member. The condition precedent for being elected is that you must be a member (see Article 3). You must be registered; you must pay dues. There are lawyers who are not members of the Nigerian Bar Association (NBA). When they die, NBA does not bury them. You must pay dues in NBA. Igbos face existential threat in Nigeria; from outright xenophobia such as persecution of Igbos in Obigbo in 2020. The place was locked down for one month under persecution. I wrote a petition to then Gov Nyesom Wike, and I was one on some television stations speaking on it. That was when Wike said that Ikwerre is not Igbo, and I replied him in the Vanguard of December 5, 2020, pages 1, 9, 10, 11, and 12 (nine pages) asking ‘Wike, why deny your Igbo root?’ I stated in those pages that we are Igbos.
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So, the point am making is; the distinguished senator is highly respected; but has he ever raised his voice for Ndigbo in times of trouble, when they face trouble, under the rain or sun?
What has been the issue here is, Ikwerre people are not Igbo. I wish Mbata had used his vintage position to say something. It would have helped the Igbo to find a voice. Some of us were considered lunatics for saying it, perhaps, Igbos wouldn’t have been frightened the way they were. Igbos were frightened in Port Harcourt. Are we talking about Ikokwu Spare Parts Market where Wike practically shut them down and built a flyover to nowhere simply to push them out. Who said anything? I was on radio. Now, because president-general position is zoned to Igbo-speaking groups in Rivers State, today everybody is an Igbo man.
What actually is the task no matter who is president-general?
Huge, but it depends on what you set for yourself to do. For me, I have set five tasks as agenda. I do not know what anybody else has. It is not a political party for everybody to have same manifesto in his party. Now, what is the task ahead of me predicated on my experience:
One; I will rigorously pursue the inclusion of Igbos in Benue State, Edo, and Akwa Ibom. I will mobilise to ensure we include Igbos in these states into Ohanaeze family and give them voting rights. I will pursue it with vigour because we cannot shrink ourselves when all others in the world strive to expand. Today, the Igbos in Rivers and Delta states have voting rights.
Two: I will work with stakeholders including the Igbo Journalists Forum to ensure constitutional amendment. This is because the constitution is not inclusive and not self-explanatory. Two things that must be included are one; statutory electoral commission instead of ad-hoc electoral committee usually set up at an election. Nigeria as cruel as it is does not use ad-hoc committee but a commission. We will insist on credible Igbos in it including Igbos in Diaspora. It will deliver everything including credible, free and fair elections. It will not be set up by the National Executive Committee (NEC) but will be the one to outlive the NEC. They will be screened by Igbos. If you work and retire at 70 years and above, at that point, it is believed that you communicate more with the spirits and ancestors, they bring you into the electoral committee believing you have more interest in helping the next generation instead of self. You do not have much to gain in the physical realm but more in helping your people. That is the calibre of people that should be in the electoral committee. They will also be manageable; not in hundreds but not more than 15 persons; persons of honour and credibility.
The second thing is that the constitution has to be translated into Igbo Language for those who don’t read in English read it. If the Bible is translated into Igbo, there is no reason Ohanaeze (which is like Igbo bible) cannot be translated into Igbo. When I met Eze Nnaji in Enugu, he told me that he did not have the Ohanaeze constitution. It shocked me. So, the constitution must be made available everywhere including at airports and churches. Something is wrong the way we run Ohanaeze. Which state to produce president-general was almost tearing us apart. The constitution should be able to tell the Igbos plainly what it is. I don’t blame Mike Okiro because to blame a man you must educate him.
How money tears Ohanaeze Ndigbo apart
The third is; I will work hard to ensure that the management of Ohanaeze fund is not left in the hands of the National Executive Committee (NEC). We shall put it in a board of trustee. The problem with Ohanaeze Ndigbo is that from time to time, there is accusation of looting and stealing. Such thing destroys an organisation by destroying its reputation.
The constitution wrongly keeps the fund under the NEC and they can steal it. If you keep money with me, I can abuse it. The NEC should apply to the Trust Fund board with a budget and seek approval. They get the money, spend, and account at the General Assembly who can cross-match with the approval given. The Trust Fund should be populated with retired judges and retired journalists, retired permanent secretaries that are at the same level with those qualified to be in the electoral commission.
Last three months, the National Youth Council of Ohanaeze Ndigbo came out openly and accused the secretary-general and called the Economic and Financial Crimes Commission (EFCC) to arrest him for embezzlement. So, of course our enemies were laughing at us. If in Ohanaeze we are talking of looting of funds, how can we talk about looting of Nigeria’s money. So, we must take practical steps to cure this. I am an insider, I was secretary-general, I am talking from the things I observed.
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Why did Igbo fail to get one more state from Buhari?
The third is in keeping with the recommendation of Ohanaeze Ndigbo recommending of an Aba State. We shall demand for the creation of Aba State from the South-East and creation of Anioma State out of Delta State.
Now, what happened about Aba State is the source of the conflict we are having today. In 2018, the then President met with Igbo leaders and Yoruba leaders and said he understood the pains of the Igbo and the Yorubas. That the Igbos has bitterly complained that they were denied state and the federal amenities that go with state creation. He said state capitals get many federal amenities such as federal medical centres, universities and polytechnics, etc. but that the Igbos have only five states whereas all other former provinces have six or seven states. It is same in representation in national bodies such as Senate and House of Representatives. For the Yoruba, he promised to recognise the late MKO Abiola to pacify them. By these proposed steps, he felt he would have pacified the Igbo and Yoruba.
We Ohanaeze came back home and recommended Aba State out of 18 demands. Nnia Nwodo, who was then the president-gneral, was not happy. He said the reason for which he worked hard to become president-general of Ohanaeze was to fight for the creation of Adada State. We had argued that the old Anambra had three state capitals that attract federal amenities (Abakaliki, Enugu, and Awka). The Old Imo have only two; Umuahia and Owerri. If you create Adada State and get another capital, you make old Anambra to have four capitals against Old Imo with same two capitals. There is nothing to show that they are more in number. This would be gross injustice. Only Imo State has 27 LGAs, whereas Ebonyi has only 10. The military handed states as favours to Generals. It has nothing to do with merit or justice of justiciability. We recommended Aba State, but Nwodo never submitted that recommendation to this day. President Buhari waited for it and had to recognise Abiola and conferred him posthumously with GCFR (Grand Commander of the Federal republic). The matter of the pacification of the Igbo was lost.
Another vexed issue was who was Ohanaeze going to adopt in 2019? My position was, do not adopt anybody. Nwodo insisted it must be Abubakar Atiku, and I said no. My reason was that Buhari was doing four years from the North. If we supported Atiku, the north would do another eight years with him. But if we supported Buhari, he would do only four years and go. Atiku is a Fulani, Moslem, and north. Buhari is same. It was a choice between two brothers. We should allow Buhari to finish and go so power will come back to the South. Let us negotiate power. He (Nwodo) went ahead to adopt Atiku, the Yoruba’s seized the opportunity and supported Buhari and negotiated themselves into power. That’s how we lost out again. The way it is today, if Asiwaju rules for eight years and goes, power will go back to the north. Before it comes back to the south or South-East, it will be 2039 by which time, a lot of people would have died.
Now, why do I say this, if we keep saying what somebody did to you, also say the one you did to yourself. We are not strategic in thinking.
The fourth thing I will do is very important. Ndigbo must create a council of elders or a mediation committee in conflicts in Igboland. When there was this type of conflict in 2021, the Conference of Archbishops and Bishops led by an Archbishop, Emmanuel Chukwuma of the Ecclesiastical Diocese of Enugu and Alternate Chairman, Bishop Anthony Obinna of the Catholic Diocese of Owerri with Bishop Chibuzo Okpoko of Umuahia as secretary, came on board to resolve it, and they resolved it, but power blocs did not agree. See what the bishops said about me, asking them to swear me in as deputy president. A lot of people do not know what I stand for.
From experience, Igbos must have a mediation into conflicts just as in Yoruba that resolved the problem between Fredrick Fasehun and Gani Adams. Today, the problem Simon Ekpa and Nnamdi Kanu was not resolved. Ekpa is pursuing ‘unknown gunmen agenda’ while Kanu is pursuing Biafra. That conflict is what has led us to where we are with lots of killings. No ethnic group can survive without mediation. There must be people who stand in the gap, if anything happens, they can say, all of you, go to Abiriba and see Ebitu Ukiwe. When Ukiwe turned 80, I wrote that people must respect him as Aka Ji Ofor Ndigbo (Hand that holds Igbo Conscience).
Thus, an ethnic group that does not have someone they respect is finished, whether the man is right or wrong. Let us believe in him and respect him. There is no person that is right in this world. We will have a standing mediation committee that can intervene in serious matters. Look at the problem between Rochas Okorocha and Gov Hope Uzodinma to the extent that Uzodinma went and destroyed personal house of Okorocha on Concord Avenue. It shouldn’t have happened if we had that kind of body. There must be ‘give and take’. But Peter Fayose became campaign manager of Asiwaju. Rotimi Akeredolu did the same. The Yorubas have a way of managing their problem. See what they did at the APC Convention in Abuja, they closed ranks to ensure Asiwaju emerged. If it was here, Igbos would carry it on their heads that their man was a drug baron, that he had no father, etc, that he had no WAEC, no degree. The Yorubas held tight, and no person released any document. If it was here, somebody would produce those documents.
Nnamdi Kalu came to me when I was secretary-general but I told him no, stop calling some prominent Igbos bastard even if their parentage is doubtful. There are things you don’t say. Today, there are lots of men who are not the children of the fathers they claim. Some are even more successful in the society. So, those people you were calling bastards are the ones that would have put word to release you.
If Igbos close ranks today, they will release Kalu but the Igbos have closed their mouth. These are my personal views. There are allegations today of the man that provided the plane that brought him to Nigeria. I do not have proof.
So, we must have a mediation committee that can caution you on what to say and not to say, so we can have one united Igbo.
I am happy today Ikwerre people are coming out to say they are Igbo and want to be president of Ohanaeze. Oh, it is like, this mad man 20 years ago saw what we did not see. Now they are shouting they are Igbo.
But Ogbakor Ikwerre is still insulting John Mbata for claiming to be president of Ohanaeze Ndigbo?
The truth is, how far would Ogbakor Ikwerre go? We have passed this stage. I am the one that wrote several articles that we are Igbo. What I want to say is this, anybody who says he is from Bini should quietly go back to Bini. No fight about it. This is Igboland. You cannot be talking about Isiokpo, Omerelu, Rumuji, and these names, and you are calling them Bini. They are not Bini names. One day, the president-general of Ogbakor Ikwerre will realise. I sympathise with him. When he realises, he will come.
Igbos must come home to invest.
The fifth thing the Igbos must do is that Ohanaeze Ndigbo must be at the vanguard that Igbos come home to invest. I went to Mbaise to see the professor, Uzodinma Nwala, first professor on earth of Igbo Philosophy. He is the man who introduced Igbo Philosophy in the world. He is over 80 years. At the front of the local government, there are no tarred roads, but every house you see in Mbaise is a mansion in the bush. The question is, why not come home to put your own community in order? Why are you investing and developing in Lagos, Ibadan, Abuja, Kaduna, Jos, Makurdi, Abeokuta, etc. Why is 75% of property in Abuja belongs to Igbos? Sorry, it’s not a plus. This is my personal opinion. If Nigerians today are going to Dubai on holiday, they can come to Igboland if we bring home the wealth in other cities in Nigeria. People go on holiday to Kenya.
Everybody was leaving other cities to go to Owerri which was becoming Las Vegas. Today, they have used ‘Sit-At-Home’ to destroy Owerri.
Everybody has run away from Owerri with unknown gunmen. If Igboland was growing the way it was growing, the place would have been like Los Angeles.
This brings us to another agenda: Ohanaeze being in the forefront of fight for peace in Igboland. We must carry out disarmament of our youths that are holding guns; their rehabilitation and reintegration. Else, nothing will work in Igboland. Orlu was growing as a pharmaceutical hub and also for paints and aluminum. But all that has crashed. Ohanaeze must lead the campaign for return of peace in Igboland.
Finally, Ohanaeze must negotiate with the Federal Government to release Nnamdi Kalu, and he must accept to lead the peace campaign. There is a condition for every bail, even in the police station, an undertaking. A lot of people are exploiting the name Nnamdi Kanu to commit crimes which he did not send them to do. The boys just say, they are holding our leader. They hide under it to commit havoc. This appeals to the vulnerable minds. So, release him, let him lead in healing the land.
The Igbos in the diaspora must be united and be strong. The strength of the Jews is the Jewish Congress. The Igbos abroad must work to foster Igbo dignity. Ohanaeze must collaborate the World Igbo Congress so that back home, we can improve human capital development, science and tech.
My last pursuit, Ohanaeze must develop strategies with local governments and states for agric development. A situation where 95% of food eaten in the east comes from other regions is catastrophic. A people that cannot feed themselves are doomed. Nobody can tell me we don’t have fertile lands in Igboland; from Etche to Ngor Okpala; from Elele to Owerri; from Elele to Egbema; from Obigbo to Aba; from Okigwe to Enugu. No land is not fertile. If the state of Israel that sits on rocky land can export food, every country can produce food. I am of the opinion that if we achieve these things, Igboland will be a new place and the next executive will build or improve on this.
As president, I will work to remove the title of president general. Any title that scares your people is not good. Why not just Leader or chairman of Ohanaeze just like Leader of Afenifere. General or President scares people. Word can enter your head to think you can cause trouble. Your title should pull you to your people, not pull you away. Igbos should be able to draw close to their leaders and ask them questions. I blame the elites that do not come into Ohanaeze. Journalists do not occupy the position of Publicity Secretary of Ohanaeze. Publicity is a specialised area not to be left to novices. Same with financial secretary that should be a chartered accountant. I may be wrong in this call but we have manpower. We call people in Ohanaeze thieves but we fall back on them. Imagine if Ohanaeze is in the presidency and the Minister of Information is facing the Publicity secretary of Ohanaeze as someone who is higher than the Minister in the profession, the minister would be careful.
When I was shouting that people should come into Ohanaeze, they thought I was mad. Now, they see what I saw. Let educated people rush in now. How much is the monthly due, just about N20. You can pay for a year N240. Attend your local meetings and not leave it to others. It is the largest socio-cultural organisation in the world with 150m people. When we (Ojukwu, Uwazuruike, and I) went to the US in 2001 there were 5m Igbos in the US. How come people with this kind of population be carefree with their destiny!
Today, the support I have from the Diaspora is heavy. Google it. I was shouting to them to participate. Governors use Ohanaeze and will drop them. IPOB has declared support for me. They call them names I say no, understand them.
Can John Mbata face the fire that Igbos face?
He cannot. He is too pro-establishment. He cannot support secession but I do. It’s not a crime to ask to secede. If you read the History of Secession in Nigeria by Tekena Tamuno, you will see that Igbos are late comers to the agitation. The Yorubas demanded for secession in 1963, the Hausas demanded for secession in 1914, the Middle Belt insisted on it. The first time an Igbo man asked for secession was in 1965 by Frank Opigo on the floor of the House of Representatives that the east should pull out of Nigeria. Why would you persecute anybody asking for secession except the person is carrying guns. Right to self-determination is sustained in the law. Court of Appeal of Kenya has ruled on it as a right. Countries in the world have included the right to secede in their constitutions. Ethiopia is one. Russia had it in their constitution and that was why they were able to break into 53 republics. I believe in the right for secession if a man is not satisfied. After all that amalgamated us have included it and Scotland has gone for it twice. That is why I say that intellectuals must lead the struggle. The man leading the struggle for the right of secession of the Yoruba people is a professor of history.
What they are doing to Kalu will not be so if he was a professor of international relations. The problem is a small man is leading it.
Can Mbata talk of marginalisation of Igbos in Nigeria? He does not have what it takes. When the fire starts, he will not be there. What if they go to the census and undercount the east, can he raise fire. A businessman cannot do that. It is only in Igboland a business man wants to be a traditional ruler. He makes money in Lagos and comes to his community to be an Eze. He goes to the state government and pumps money and they create few compounds for him as autonomous community as king or Eze. He is a traditional ruler, a politician, a businessman. The billionaires in Yorubaland are not interested in being traditional rulers. The militants in Yorubaland are not traditional rulers but here, most of them are. So, all the fight you fought is to become a traditional ruler and wear big clothes? Does it make sense?
Any advice to John Mbata?
Harken to the voice of reason and accept that there was no election in Enugu. Let him allow those who can take the bullet to lead. Ndigbo are not yet a free people; it’s not everybody that can lead them. Generals fight the war but administrators come to administer the land. In Biafra, the Ben Nwabuezes did not come but the Achuzias did. The professors wait so the generals fight and maybe die. The Igbos are facing existential threat (battle of survival). It’s not uhuru. The governors are playing to the gallery. You cannot rig election in Kano but you sit in government house and write election results. Even when Peter Obi won everywhere in South East, would it give him the presidency? The answer is no, and they knew it ahead.
Igboland is ruled by four parties: Imo and Ebonyi are APC, Anambra is APGA, Enugu is PDP, Abia is Labour. So, four manifestos are facing Igboland. Each governor is in contestation against the other for political space. During election, each governor goes to help win election in the other state. How can such people speak with one voice. Each will fight to win the other. It’s hegemonic contestation for power.
People close to you say you went to Mbata to ask him to support you, the next thing you heard was he was contesting. Is that kind of rumour true?
Yes; I did go to him to support me. I also went to other important personalities. He never knew that Ohanaeze zoned presidency to Rivers State. I went to all Ikwerre sons to support me and it is right and proper because even in any circumstance, people go to get help to accomplish any task. The truth is I do not have money but even a man that wants to marry, you take drinks to relations. We are a communal people.
At what point did he then decide to contest against you?
They said it was the governors and they were the ones that brought all the officers. They say the governors did the harmonisation of list, but for 21 officers to emerge from consensus is highly suspicious.
People ask me if I was amenable to resolution. I have said yes, if there is a credible committee that is ready to understand the issues and face the facts, not by wish-wash anything. Now, non-royal families twist things and become Eze. They do not have royal blood but they are now Onyenwe-ala (owner of the land). I want peace and I do not want Rivers State tenure to be in pieces. Now, we have three presidents-general.
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