Bode George, a former national vice chairman (Southwest) of the People’s Democratic Party (PDP) and leader of the party in Lagos State, interacted with a select group of journalists in his office on the state of the nation. INIOBONG IWOK was there. Excerpts:
It is 20 years of democracy, how would you assess the journey so far?
I thought the genesis of the problem was when the western region crisis erupted and everybody thought it will be only in the west but it became a cancer that consumed all the whole country. If we don’t learn any lesson from that we would not be able to appreciate the present situation. Most of you were young; you may not have much experience about the way the military operated. We have a saying in Yoruba land, that if you have someone who has a hunchback who carries something in the head, the load would bend to one side, someone may say look at this person, but we should look at him from his situation. By the time I explain the problem from that time we can decide if we are moving forward or we are stagnant or are still dancing the Michael Jackson dance.
We got independence in 1960; the British left us with three regions, and at the centre we had the prime Minister. The heads of the regions were also very powerful; they used their resources to develop their regions. They extracted Midwest from the western region, the premier just sat and ruled. The western region extended up to boundary in Ajegunle in Lagos State, Idiroko, the whole place up to Lekki, Ikorodu was all western region. I come from a little extract from Lagos Island, we all benefited from the management style of western region; the resources available were used for the people. My late lecturer in UNILAG used to say that once there is a definition, you don’t query the definition, because the bases would always be the bases. Let put that at the back of our mind; the crisis in the western region could have been well managed, but it was not and the military struck and a section of the country’s leaders were killed. When the dust settled, everybody was asking who killed who? Then we had Aguiyi Ironsi as the head of the army. The military as an organisation is unique with its concept of organisation. The type of management style cannot be replicated anywhere, it is always top to bottom, once an order is given at the top you must obey. But that is not democratic, order should flow from bottom to the top, because; the people are affected; they elected those who represent them and they are to manage their resources for their betterment. In the military, order is often given to the various units, is only God that can save you if you don’t line up and listen. When the military came in 1966, the only thing they understood was top to bottom order, hierarchical system. They said they would run the country like that. Initially, the problems we had in the First Republic were issues which affected the minority groups. Otherwise, everybody developed according to their needs, resources where available within the zones and they give token to the central to maintain the army, foreign policy and the rest. That was where we deviated; when the military came every resources was taken to the centre, the centre became extremely too strong. When General Gowon came because of the frustration of the minority in the regions; they had complained that they can only be seen and not heard. So Gowon created 12 states to ease that tension. They don’t need to campaign for that; ones you are successful in your coup, you just start ruling, but because you are going to rule the people you must try and do something that would attract the people you want to rule. So, he created 12 states to ease the tension of the First Republic, but he created another centre, rather than allowing the states to develop with the resources within them, these are issues that are yet to be resolved till today. Am happy I was in the military, tribal sentiment was not there, it was purely love for the country, everybody was fighting for one purpose. Creation of state has never been handled by civilian government, we need to ask why, the military created this imbalance; some states have more Local Government Areas, and all the resources are taken to Abuja. Look at VAT, Lagos produced a significant amount of the VAT for this country, but when it goes to the national basket and it is distributed, what comes here is 11 percent. Is that justifiable? Unless we go back to correct this imbalance, there would never be peace. It is like you are covering a smoke; for how long would you cover your pipe for it not to come out? I am happy I have had the chance to travel round the country and as you go from one locality to the other, resources differ. There is no zone that does not have resources that if you tap you can use it for the benefit of the people.
But what is the way forward; some have advocated, constitutional amendment?
I have just told you the mistakes, that 2014 constitutional conference came out with brilliant solutions, I was there every item of the agenda was debated and they brought out solutions. Some said that we should go back to regional government, and I said that would never happen. Can you tell an Osun man to go back to Oyo? Or tell an Ekiti man to go back to Ondo? That is not possible. Let’s have federated states, let those states remain; let every state tap into the resources of their land for the benefit of their people. We copied this constitution from America and you know there is a small state in America, but things are coming out and people are surviving there, because they control their resources. You cut your cloth according to your cloth and not your size. California is the sixth largest economy in the world, there was a time the national government was saying they would cut off trade with China, but the government in the California said no, we would continue to deal with them for the survival of our people. In America, the number of Counties you have depend on you, if you create as you like you would take care of them, everything is not controlled by the government at the top. How can one man sit down in Abuja and know what my problem is in Isale Eko? Why should it be the man sitting in Abuja that would know what is happening in Ajegunle? It can’t work! These are the solutions; true federalism, proper restructuring of the country, so that everybody would go back, the governors would now go back, and the people would know that if you don’t elect a credible leader to manage your resources you would suffer for it. All these emperors, godfathers that manipulate our electoral process would be eliminated.
The government has declared June 12 as Democracy Day; how significant is this?
That makes a lot of sense to remember our heroes of the past; those who have been cheated in the past. But what is the benefit of history? It is to make sure that the mistakes of the past are not repeated. What is in a date? Put it there, but has that brought food to the table for the children, improve our roads, the cheating and manipulation of elections result have those things disappeared? Has that encouraged the judiciary to be fair and uphold justice? No matter how you want to manipulate it, MKO Abiola would always be part of history. But what have we corrected? What has it done to the price of milk? These are deceitful things to the people; are investors happy to come here and invest? Why are they running away? I don’t care about the date for democracy day; I am concerned about the impact of governance. The tribal division in the country is that not an issue that should concern us. Since I was a kid, the Mallams have been bringing cattle to Lagos State. Why are they now behaving as if it is an occupation Army? June 12 has nothing to do with this, what is going on? We have existed together and the respect for ourselves is paramount. Till today, my best friend that I met in the military is still a Fulani man, he is my brother; but the way we are now, we are creating tribal division and expanding it, it has never been this bad. When Obasanjo gave power to Shagari there was no name they did not call him, they felt he should have given it to Awolowo. Recently, he made a suggestion that these herdsmen incursion is harming us; he is also a farmer; the farmers’ association may have met him and ask what is going on? My friend Sule Lamido made a bad statement by calling him religious bigot. This is the same man that gave him opportunity to be a minister. Soyinka also made such statement and you know they are not on the same page.
How did we get to a point where things degenerated this far?
If you get to anywhere, the first thing would be your professional experience and concept which would help guide your reasoning. When Gowon created 12 states, the first thing was because of the pain of the minority. But rather than go on and do the real federal system which had existed, he brought in the military style of doing things. Top to the bottom, that is how the Dodan barrack started. And once we get back from Shagari we should have said this system is bad; let take it away. But we did not do that and the President of the country was now like an Army general commanding. Everything is resolved from top to bottom, that is not democracy; democracy is bottom to top, and the people must be heard. The people’s voices must give attention, their need must be met. Now, unfortunately, because we still brought the top bottom management style, that is why we are like this. But until we go back to true federalism, nothing would change.
How do you react to recent defections in the PDP in Lagos State and declaration by Segun Adewale that he is the new chairman?
Those people you are mentioning, where did they come from? They came from the APC. One of them, Kunle Okunola, told me they wrote a letter to him wanting to stop his business. These are young men, whatever you sow you reap; Dipo was the only PDP left in the Lagos State House of Assembly, he told me they refused to pay his allowances; they even arrested him for gun-running. As you lay your bed, so you lie on it. That is not a political party. Let them go; some of them benefit here for long and they are going to a place where they don’t practise democracy at all. Look at that Rita Orji, she came around and got the ticket; after that she started running around that she is the leader of the party in the state. The experience we have now is not only Lagos State, but across the Southwest. There is an unnecessary incursion into the affairs of the party. There is serious interference in the management of the party. When I was the deputy national chairman of the party, I did not poke my eyes into what was happening in states’ chapters of the party. We met some days ago, and we decided that never again are we going to allow anybody outside of our zone to come and interfere in the affair of the party. Let the leaders face national issues; you cannot know my house more than me. They were handpicking candidates, imposing them, but we are determined that this would never happen again. Because if you do not put your foot down and manage your own, nobody would come and manage your house for you. For those who are gone, some of them were good guys, they will soon realise that they are jumping from frying pan to fire. Segun Adewale case is laughable; we need to pray for him, he is a very sick young man. The national body of the party has written that he is not a member of the party. If he says he is the chairman, I don’t know the party, but not this PDP. We came out and fight a good fight in the presidential election, we worked for Atiku and we are sure he won. But for Agbaje, he said he knew it all, you people are saying he is now in APC; well, all his movement says he has always been in APC.
