The presiding Archbishop of Calvary Kingdom Church (CKC), Lagos, Joseph Ojo celebrated his 72nd birthday on Sunday, April 18, where he took time out to talk about the state of affairs and the general atmosphere in the country. Excerpts by SEYI JOHN SALAU:
Could you please reflect on life at 72?
Life at 72 is a new experience. I am greatful to God, how that he kept me alive, strong, healthy, at the age of 72. I think life at 72 is a life of continuous gratitude to God, because it’s not everybody that lives as long as that; not because they sinned or did one thing or the other, just because we enjoyed the grace of God.
When you look back on Nigeria of then and now: what difference do you see?
The difference is too much. The gap is not bridgeable; you cannot bridge the gap between then and now. I think maybe it’s the inability of our leaders to begin to develop with the increase of population. When we had independence in 1960, Nigeria’s population was less than 50million (about 46/48 it was then). But, now we are talking about 200 million plus. If they have been developing gradually as the population exploded, am sure we wouldn’t be in the state we are in now. Those days, roads were done by reputable construction companies. Some of the roads in Edo State where I come from, were done in 1975 during Gowon and Ogbemudia’s regime – the roads are still motorable with little or no patches. But these days they do roads; three years they are washed away because of the level of greed and corruption. I think Nigeria has not done too well in infrastructure because the leaders lack the vision. They are so selfish – they want to amass wealth for themselves and their family, which they will regret when they get to wherever they are going; weather heaven or hell. We really cannot compare it. I remember in 1983, I went to US for school – my return ticket was N1,500 and Naira was stronger than the US Dollar. So, we can’t compare it because we are in a place (world) we never envisage. We thought things will be better. I bought a brand new Volkswagen car N1,700, so you can’t imagine it.
But, there is this argument that a larger percentage of people in your generation who enjoyed the good old days are also responsible for the decay in the system. What is your take on that?
I wouldn’t argue with the people of that school of thought because majority like you said (larger percent) of these people don’t know God. Those who know God have the fear of God. Most of the leaders we have today are people who don’t know God; yes some have coloration of religion, but religion is not the same thing as the knowledge of God. You can’t know God and not fear him – you can’t know God and fail to realise that you are a servant; whether in the church or in the secular leadership – we are all servants of the Most High God. We are to serve the people; it’s just that we have many of the leaders today both church and secular who don’t fear God. The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. Those days, even people who didn’t go to church knew God – they feared God, they prayed to God, but today the difference is that many of them don’t know God. They are just pursuing their selfish end – those who know God are strong and are still doing exploit.
Yes, we can agree that leadership lack vision; what about the indifference of the followership, especially in regard to elections?
I think I can use myself as example of those who have general apathy about election. The last one I didn’t vote – I intended to vote; but you can’t imagine at my status without pride, going to the polling booth. We were told to go check our names and I have my voter’s card with me but was told my name was not on the list and that I should go to one local government secretariat. How can you disenfranchise me – how can you remove my name from the voters’ register? Maybe, somebody thought I belong to this party; but I don’t belong to party. So, I think that is the reason that makes many people to be indifferent about election. If things are done the way they should be done, everybody will want to vote – that is the truth. I did all the necessary things; I registered, they gave me the voter’s card only to get to the polling booth on the day and they say, ‘oga your name no dey’. It is embarrassing; I left my house and now I have to go to the local government. I have to queue and somebody will say ‘papa’ come if you can just give me N5000, I will bring your own out. How do I know that he is even going to bring a genuine voter register. I think on my own side that is what killed the interest of very many people.
I would like you to talk about the assignment given to you by the PFN leadership?
My responsibility and assignment given to me by the PFN as the chairman for state inauguration committee. Like I told you few days back; I have handled that position for eight (8) years. That was the position I held throughout Omobude presidency and it’s because the new president knew I did a credible work being the deputy president then, he elected to have me handle it again. All the states in the country, including Abuja; when the tenure of the excos expires, new elections are done and I am the one who go and swear them in and also sign their certificate – the instrument of office that validates; without it any election or handover is nullified. And by God’s grace, God has given me knowledge to do it to my own understanding.
Now, considering your age, do you think you still have that vigour to go round 36 states of the federation?
Maybe you heard when I said in our last meeting that the seven (7) zones including Abuja to send one person to serve in the committee. There are places I cannot go; if I have representative there, I will just forward to them what they will do. I don’t have to go through every state – leadership is by delegation. So, I sign the certificate, and send to the man in Abuja or the man in Southwest if I can’t go there – it’s me that have done it. As long as I have people in the committee that can represent me.
Insecurity in Nigeria is like an over-flogged issue; what do you think government should do differently this time?
I think the government is overwhelmed because without fear or favour, this government wanted to wrest power by all means possible from Jonathan’s administration. So, they imported so many people to come and disintegrate both the economy and political terrain. But, they never knew that Jonathan would easily concede defeat. And now those people are here and are the cause of all these things. All we need now is a government that is proactive enough – I think courageous enough is the right word; that will come up with a policy that will make these people return to where they are coming from. They have tried RUGA – RUGA didn’t ‘rugareth’ anything. They tried all means to nationalise them, it didn’t work and it can’t work. So, a government should be courageous enough to ask from people where they come from. Do a new registration; it cannot take more than two/three months, and if you do not have valid documents; if you don’t have an identifiable residence – go back to where you came from. That is my thinking, and many of them in flocks of these foreigners with all their plans – but they never knew it will meet brick walls and it has met brick walls. It has failed, that is my take.
The Nigeria police now have a new sheriff in town (new IGP); what is your advice to him?
The new Inspector-General of Police should chart a new course for the police. If his predecessors have done well; I would have said let him follow their footsteps, but they have not. I am sure if he wants to make a name for himself, he should chart a new course. He should do identifiable things that will make people respect the uniform and make people respect his leadership. He should do things that will make people have his leadership as a reverence point in the policing in this country. I think if he continues the business as usual, he will be one of those that will be relegated to the history books – that is my thinking.
Many believe that Revd. Omobude as PFN president didn’t speak truth to power the way he should; but the new president has taken a different direction. What is your take and what do you think he should do going forward?
I think the truth of the matter is that everybody; leaders have their leadership style. That was Omobude’s leadership style, and it worked for him. And, if our president now has his own leadership style; I believe it will work for him. Before you take the realms of power you must have itemised what you are projecting to handle and to do. So, if he is outspoken on it – all we need do is to support him prayerfully and ensure that government listens to him because it’s one thing to talk, it’s another thing to be heard. You can hear me talk but you may not even hear me and that you are hearing what I am saying doesn’t mean you have heard me. You heard me means you have responded – you are doing what I suggested you should do. So, people can hear without hearing; people can talk without people listening to you. I believe he needs our prayers in the right directions, and with our prayers and support, government will hear him right.
