Leonard Umunna, a bishop and founder of Bible Life Church, in this interview with ZEBULON AGOMUO, Editor, speaks on the leadership problem of Nigeria; the role of the clergy in the country; the insecurity challenge, the need to change the nation’s Constitution, the country’s name and the implication of such for the progress of Nigeria. The cleric also disagrees with those who say some zones of the country cannot produce a president of Nigeria. He believes that every geo-political zone has qualified people to lead the country. Excerpts:
You have been reading and hearing about many things happening in our country, Nigeria. How do you feel as a citizen?
The first thing that agitates me is the general insecurity in the land. Once life is threatened, what else? If people cannot be assured of their security, there is hopelessness. Life is not worth living again for many people. Then when you talk about the economy, it is in a state of coma. But if the government should give the people constant power/electricity, small businesses will boom. The SMEs will operate at minimal cost. If production improves in Nigeria, it will improve the economy and the exchange rate. If the economy improves, it will also improve the health of the nation; people will begin to enjoy good health. When the economy improves it helps the education sector and everything will fall in line. Nations are increasing their budgets for education. I learnt that of Ghana; that what they allocated to education alone is more than what we vote for many important sectors and education put together. The way things are being handled in our dear country by leaders are spelling doom for Nigeria. I have always said, if the leaders are today made to have no constant electricity or supply of light either by solar or generator or any other means, they will surely fight everything to ensure it is available. Or put it this way, if they are denied other sources of giving them light and it is said to them unless you fix this electricity issue for everybody you won’t have light, they would sort it out. The same thing, if their children are barred from seeking education outside the country, they would do everything to fix education here. Or, let us say they themselves are denied access to foreign medical trip or consumption of imported goods, they would do everything to fix the health sector and improved on locally–produced goods. Things would be better because they would have put up more efforts to harness what we have to meet the needs of the people.
2023 is fast approaching; from where we are as a country; do you have some people you think if given the opportunity they can lead well?
God is never without a man. Never.
But I have told you that Nigeria has never elected any president, it has been selection all the way. God has many people capable of leading Nigeria. Again, there is no region that does not have people that are capable of leading this country. If it is on the basis of track record, you will see some people. If it is on the basis of character, you will also see it. If it is on the basis of ideology you will see it. So, let us not deceive ourselves.
There are more than enough qualified people to lead Nigeria, but we still go to that circle of anointing by members of the oligarchy. Unless or except they anoint people, no matter how qualified others are, they cannot make it. Sadly too, those they anoint and select are not among our best eleven. That is the major problem of Nigeria.
There was a period you went to Aso Rock; you were invited. You prayed for the country and its leadership – that was during the Obasanjo administration. Why is it that things appear to be getting worse even after you prayed for the nation?
Most Nigerians are not straight forward. The holders of levers of power are not helping matters. Just as Chinua Achebe said that the main problem of Nigeria is leadership, that is our major problem. You see, South Africa had its own challenges, but when Nelson Mandela came out from prison, he signaled a change. The country changed for the better. But when Obasanjo came out of the prison, he started well, but midway things went wrong. The Bible says when the righteous is in authority, the people rejoice.
When the right people are in place of power, things go well in the country or anywhere they are. Things go well because of their policies; because of their tendencies. It is who you are that will determine what you can do. Again, when you are alone, or a lone–ranger, the only good person in the midst of bad people, there is a limit to what you can do. That is why I have been harping on changing the Constitution; and if possible, rename Nigeria too. Give our Constitution a character, because it virtually decides what you do in any nation. I have also said and still believe that if you give a good man a bad Constitution, he may try to find a way to do good; but if you give a bad man a good Constitution, he will still mess it up. So, the thing is about the type of leadership a country has. What has been our major problem – call it oligarchy, or any other name – it has been the same problem all along; whether in the past or now. There is a mafia somewhere that pushes their will and determines what happens. This belief by certain people that ‘we are superior;’ ‘we are the owners of Nigeria;’ ‘we can never allow this or that;’ these kinds of ideas will never allow any nation to make progress.
So, what is the place of prayer in the development or peace of our nation; because one expected that after your prayer then; and all the prayers going on, things would have been better?
Get it right. When I made that prayer, there was big trouble in the North; the Boko Haram people were kidnapping children only and it was becoming too terrible in this country. It is unfortunate that bandits are going to schools to kidnap children; and now to the point of going to professors’ house to kidnap them and members of their families in higher institutions. But, what I prayed for at that time was a specific prayer and God answered me. When you have bad leadership that is not ready to change, it is difficult to see progress. Let me tell you, if the president of a country is good and means well for his country, but he is surrounded by bad people, he cannot achieve anything. God will always answer it when we pray the right prayer. Look at what happened the other day at the National Assembly when they wanted to make it difficult for our votes to count by refusing the INEC to transmit results electronically, but we prayed and you can see what is happening now. God always answers my prayer.
You once said that Nigeria has not elected any president. How do you mean?
Yes, we have been having presidents, but they are not elected by Nigerians. We have not elected presidents so far. They are nominated, or appointed or selected; not by the people but by a few interest groups.
You are from the South East; considering the security situation in the zone; what advice do you have for Ndigbo and the Federal Government that?
My advice is that the Ohanaeze should take a definite and firm stand so that the people will know where they belong. But from what I can see now, it seems to me that they have done that already; they have taken a good stand; and that is prayer answered. They came out to say we do not support violence; but that government must address the issues for agitation. They have said it to their people that the war of freedom for Ndigbo from the oligarchy cannot be won through violence.
They are doing well and they should do more. As for the Federal Government it is about the constitution. There is the impunity in the land. People can buy justice now; it is now for sale. Look at what happened to a sitting Supreme Court Justice a few days ago in Abuja. Some of those involved said they were given papers in advance and they can fill in the name and address of whosoever they want to arrest and go and carry out the operation. Is that not impunity in the highest order?
Part of the problem of Nigeria has to do with the followership that elects bad leaders. There have been calls for youths’ involvement in leadership; what is your advice as the country prepares for 2023?
The future of Nigeria is bleak; very bleak, unless they resort to good Constitution. God was already raising light through President Jonathan when they went for Constitutional Review and they seemed to have arrived as some suggestions that could broker peace and robust economy for Nigeria, but they abandoned it. Every organisation, country or family falls or rises depending on the kind of leader they have. If we cannot sanitise the leadership, what else can you expect of democracy? If we get a good leader and that leader has strong backers; you cannot have only a Daniel without Shedrach, Meshach and Abednego – they will chase him out; and he may not make the desired impact. I have advised that they overhaul the machinery of leadership in Nigeria, in the state, at the local government level, everywhere. As for their consensus candidacy or one man imposition of candidates it is because our people have loved money more than truth or righteousness, or what is right to be done at any given time. We know what is right; even if our conscience is dead, the socio-cultural imbibement we have had should be able to make us correct ourselves.
The problem is that we do not want to do what is right. The major problem is that, according to the scripture – when the evil doers are not being punished, other people will now be tempted to follow that wrong path, thinking that is the way to go.
You have advocated for a name change for Nigeria. Why do you so much believe in that?
My name was Leonard Nwogwugwu. It’s God who changed my name first from Leo to Leonard when I was taking my First School Leaving Certificate Examination. He said to me, your name shall no longer be Leo, but Leonard. If God saw the need to change Abraham’s; Sarah’s; Peter’s names among others, then, there would need for me to believe that it is scriptural. I was suffering from all kinds of troubles in life. From birth, I was suffering from the worst form of allergy, just before I was eight days old. A doctor gave me an injection and I died; my father’s prayer brought me back to life but I became paralysed from waist down. I stayed three-and-a-half years inside a hole. It was the Lord Jesus that came there and healed me.
I suffered the worst of challenges in life. The name change is a must. When God changed my own name, things took a new dimension.
I began to make the desired progress in life. That name Nigeria means progressing with war, bloodshed, inequality and many terrible things that are negative. Go and check some countries that changed their names where they were before and where they are now. Sometimes, you see some people adding “h” after their name to achieve another pronunciation, and if they obey the rule of that name you see them prospering; they begin to see difference within six months or one year time.
That’s why I say it is not just about changing Nigeria’s name; there should also be a change of constitution to give the new name a new character; to make it work.
Beyond speaking in the media; what efforts have you made to directly contact the government on this; and what names do you suggest?
I have tried myself to say in case they care for it, the whole thing is there; I will just show them this, this, this; or even list up to 10 to 50 names that can be favourable for the country.
But I cannot give you one here now. One thing is important, when you have a name change, reject the old name and refuse people calling you or addressing you in your old name, so that the new name can work.
The insecurity situation in the country has become a serious issue; every discussion centres around it. But some people believe the solution lies with the President. What is your take?
When the land is in hurting state; there is bloodshed and the innocent blood crying must be avenged, a good leader can stop it; but if the leader is the one being accused of being nepotistic or foot-dragging and not keen on the good measures to be taken to solve the problem, the people might even believe that even those working with him are culpable.
But if the people working with him are culpable but he, himself, is making real, positive and frantic effort to condemn their works and distance from what they do; and inviting others to help and giving them the chance to perform; people will absolve that leader of any blame. This issue of kidnapping and now bandits and kidnappers are the same; and some are saying they are terrorists; we have the drones and different kinds of weapons that can do devastating job in the camp of the terrorists; than even more than the Super Tucano if they are handed to the right personnel and given them free hands to operate. The Nigeria-Biafra war confirms what I am saying. They didn’t have Tucano to do the bombing at that time. But today, we have a better equipment to put the terrorists in their proper place, yet we do not see result. That’s why I said, given a bad man a good constitution; he will still not perform. There is a mafia sabotaging things, and making sure things do not work well. They are the ones ruling. My best option is that God should put confusion among the troublers of Nigeria.
On the day Pastor William Kumuyi’s biography was launched, a professor and former vice chancellor of Ajayi Crowther University who gave the keynote address accused members of the clergy of being so quiet in Nigeria. He said they were not taking to task political leaders for proper governance of the country. What could be your response, Sir?
Of course, I am not part of those ministers. I have been speaking out and the media can bear me witness on this. That professor should be told that some of us are not in that pack. I have done my best in that regard and I still do that. I spoke to the late Head of State, Sani Abacha; he sent his men to arrest me. He said I was a politician on the pulpit. I have never been afraid to say what is right.
Now, granted that you have been that lone voice in the wilderness; where do you think the Christendom has not lived up to expectation in being that light to the corrupt society?
Let me start from here, the Olodi-Apapa where we operate from. When we came in here; it was a den of robbers. There was no atrocity that was not being committed here. But we fought them with prayer and the word of God. We chased away hardened armed robbers; prostitutes and all manner of criminals. Before we came to Olodi-Apapa, people were afraid to come to the area; but we have changed that narrative; we have brought light to that darkness. Many of them are worshipping with us today. The problem with the government is that they contact and invite those who are like them; who deceive them. But we are not into such deceits. We tell them the truth and tell them the need for them to serve the people with the fear of God and without corruption. On the number of times they invited me in those days, I told them what God said I should tell them.
If one is on the side of God and does that which God wants one to do and say, whether they hear or listen, it is left to them. Let Jonah go and do the preaching to Nineveh the way God wants, it is left for God to take a decision. That is where we stand.
